Ruthie Rocks and Marketing Max Episode.105

Ruthie Rocks and Marketing Max Episode.105


– Morning everybody. Welcome to the Saturday Morning
Real Estate Marketing Show with Ruthie Rocks, Ruth
Ahlbrand, and I am Marketing Max. Today, we’re gonna have a
repeat guest, Mr. Jimmy Dague. He’s been on the show before,
and we’re lookin’ forward to some of the topics he’s gonna bring today. He’s actually teamed up with Ruth in her social media academy, the Bee Social Savvy training site, here, and doing some training classes there, so he’ll talk a little bit about that. Before we dive into all
this, this is episode 105, the start of the third year of this show. I can’t believe its
been that long, already and it’s gone by in a
flash, it seems like. (laughing)
– It has. Life flies by, it really does.
– Yeah, absolutely. So what’s in stall for Las Vegas, for this new year, here, Ruth? – Well, I think that the
momentum for this new year is going to just skyrocket. We’re gonna have a year that
hits it outta the ballpark. I think everybody likes, also, the 2020. (clearing throat)
The duplication. – Exactly right.
– Everybody likes that. And the stats, we’ve only had two days of stats; however, last year, we did 40,060 transactions. We only missed 2018 by about
250 transactions, which– – [Marketing Max] Wow.
– Yeah, I think, this year, we’re gonna knock it outta the ballpark. Don’t you, Jimmy? – Well, I definitely think
that everything is going on, as you said, the word is momentum. We got a lotta momentum goin’, behind us. So we’ll see how that
shakes out, over the year. – I think more and more consumers are growing more confident, right now. Everybody thought 2019, goin’ into 2020, we were gonna see a recession, here, but it doesn’t look like it’s
shaping out to be like that. – No, I don’t think so. And Jimmy and I did a
show, when you weren’t on, about a month ago, about
the population’s growing, the interest rates are low, the consumer competence is high, our houses are affordable. We have a perfect storm, here, and we have jobs coming online. The economy, across the
country, is excellent. There’s no reason why
this isn’t gonna just be a killer year. – Right, right. Do ya have any stats, just
for the last couple days of the start of the new year? – I did, and they didn’t print. (laughing) The iBuyer platforms is
really what I always look at. Last year, the first three days, Zillow did four. And, this year, they’ve already done nine. And they’re number one. So, they’re still number one. I’m gonna watch ’em, it’ll make more sense as time goes on. We’ll see what kinda momentum they have, but everybody has to know
they have all the data. They have all the data. But what we have is the human touch, we have that jab-jab-right hook, which is give, give, give, and then ask. And so, this year, we’re
gonna give information, we’re gonna stay relevant, and we’re gonna beat
those iBuyer platforms, with our offensive actions,
and that’s my goal this year, to get that into everybody’s strategy. – Zillow’s really, if we take
a look at another industry, that’s very similar to the
disruption that’s happening, is the retail industry. Amazon, because they had all the data. All the retail stores, and sellers, started using Amazon to sell
their products through them. But, what Amazon did was,
they took all the analytics of what people bought through the stores, and the different sellers, and
they took all the top sellers and went out and
manufactured it themselves, and repackaged and resold
on the Amazon store. We thought stores were gonna be destroyed, and Amazon was gonna be
the only place people shop. That’s not the case. What’s happening is, sellers
had to reinvent themselves, and differentiate themselves
on the buying experience, to compete with them. It eliminated the brick-and-mortar stores that didn’t want to change, and innovate, and move towards what the consumer wants, but the people who really
dedicated themselves to finding out what the
consumer’s buying behavior is, there’s a site, right now,
that I’m really interested in, that GaryVee talks about,
the StockX.com site. It’s almost like an eBay, except it’s more specifically for apparel, and accessories. Right now they have shoes,
is mainly their big draw. And, basically, what it is is it just is the middle person between someone who has a really
cool pair of shoes that they are not wearing, and wanna sell, and someone else who wants
to look for and buy it. And then they act as an exchange where the seller offers up a price, the buyer offers up a price, and if there’s a match,
then there’s a sell. Stuff like that, that’s
innovating in that space, is something that, in
the real estate world, we need to start to consider, because that’s what it’s
gonna take to compete in this next generation of
what’s happening online, and the internet, right now. – Is that what it is, S-T-O-C-K-X? – Yes, StockX, so stock,
exactly right, StockX.com. – And I hope everybody
understand the irony, here, about it being about shoes. Zappos started by searching Google for what was the most popular item purchased, or the most popular item
that was searched for, I should say. And it was shoes. And that’s why Zappos started
their business, selling shoes, it’s because that’s what
people were searching for, more than anything. So the data does make a difference. – Yep, absolutely. In this new world, whoever owns the data, and the attention,
(laughing) owns the world. And that’s why Google and Amazon are pretty dominant in
the world, right now. – Before we get started,
I just wanna say ‘hi’ to Tom Caldwell, for joining us. Thank you, Tom, and Taylor Hyman. Taylor Hyman is an awesome gal, she’s been on our show before. And we have Scott Crossland,
and Paul Peterson. So we’re starting off
the year with viewers, and I see some other people that I can’t see who they are.
– Don’t recognize. – But, still, yeah, thank you everybody, and let’s get on with the show. – So what’s on the docket? Go ahead, Jimmy. – Paul Peterson worked at
the first real estate company I worked at, Century Realty, 40 years ago. So he’s a dinosaur, like us.
– Wow. (laughing)
– Hey, Paul. – Paul’s a great guy. He was part of my
mastermind group last year, and just love Paul. – Great.
– Yeah, he’s great. – It’s still ready and
willing to learn new stuff. That’s why he’s around 40
years, in this business. So what’s on the docket today, with Jimmy on the show, today, Ruth? – We’re gonna talk about
negotiating skills. Jim has gone across the
country teaching his class on negotiating skills, and Jimmy and I are gonna do a
class in the training center, later this month, on negotiating skills, and I have a lot to learn,
in a short period of time, but I think I’m up for it. – Well, you got a little bit of a preview the other day, Ruth. I was in Atlantic City for
the Triple Play conference, it’s the second largest real
estate conference in the U.S. NAR is, of course, first,
but then Triple Play is next, and I gave an hour session, at
Triple Play, on negotiating. Very well-attended, I think it was the highest rated session, there,
I’m waiting for the results. But I’m gonna share some
of that content today, and maybe I can give you some stuff that, if somebody wants to
download later, they can. – That’d be great.
– Fantastic, fantastic. So, what are you gonna
share with us, today? You have two, three items that
the viewers can really take, from today’s show, that they
can implement right away, into their next, listing the negotiation? – Well, first, lemme say that they may be a little disappointed, because some of this seems so obvious. Gosh, why are we teaching
this stuff so basic? I used three different
sources, for this content. One of ’em, Chris Voss was the lead hostage
negotiator for the up guy, for many years. Chris Voss wrote a book called
“Never Split the Difference”, how to negotiate life,
when life depends on it. And that was my original
thinking, about this class. The Harvard Negotiation
Project wrote a book called “Getting to Yes”, by Fisher and Ury, and I read that book first. That’s actually the foundation
for the Women’s Council one-day class on negotiating skills. The Women’s Council of Realtors has a one-day class on negotiating, and I would highly recommend
that you get outta town, and take that class,
somewhere not in your market, and network with the people there. And when you leave that class, you will leave with some referrals, because Las Vegas is a
very attractive market for Southern California, Northern California, if you took a class up there, I’d love to have you in my class, but I think you’d make a lot of money if you just went to another
area, and took a class. – What’s the name of it, Jimmy? – Effective Negotiating for
Real Estate Professionals. The book is “Getting to
Yes”, by Fisher and Ury. And then the third book
is Dr. Cialdini’s– – How to influence. – Yeah, “The Psychology of Persuasion”. Now he wrote a new book
called “Pre-Suasion”– – Yeah, “Pre-Suasion”. – Beyond excellent, it’s
really, really good. But I didn’t use that
for the one-hour session, ’cause there’s only so
much you can fit in, in one session.
(laughing) – I can tell you that tip, right there, is probably worth the admission
to this show, this morning, is go outside in the areas
where the majority of people are migrating from, to Vegas, and attend a class and network
with the realtors out there, so that you can get their referrals. – A lot of real estaters
only take the classes that are required, negotiation is not a required topic. So if they’re takin’ that class, they’re actually tryin’ to get better, and they’re willin’ to
spend money, to get better. That’s who you wanna associate with. – Absolutely, yeah, there’s
multiple players of psychology at work, there, that’s fantastic. – So, Ruthie, you tell
me where to go from here. – So, you talk about the rule of three, and how does that play into negotiating? – Well, it plays into negotiating because, the one thing we cannot
ignore is human nature. And, as animals, we have a
basic amount of bandwidth. If Max is drivin’ his car, and listenin’ to the radio, he’s cool. But if you’re ridin’ along with him, and you’re jibber-jabbering
at Max, the whole time, he can listen to his radio and
listen to you jibber-jabber, but if he’s lookin’ for an
address that he’s never seen, oh my God, drive the
car, listen to the radio, listen to Ruth, and find a new, he’s gotta ask you to dummy
up, or turn the radio off, or say, ‘You’re the navigator.’ So our typical bandwidth is three. And to not recognize
that, it’s a flaw in our dealing with human beings. It’s human nature, we can’t get beyond it. – So how’s that play in the
situation, in negotiating? – Well, just like I said, I took this from three different contents. If I’m workin’ with a seller, let’s say I’m working with a seller, when I call up the
seller, I tell the seller, ‘Mr. And Mrs. Seller, when I come over, ‘three things are gonna happen. ‘Number one, we wanna establish
the highest possible price. ‘That’s what they wanna hear. ‘I tell them, number
one, we wanna establish ‘the highest possible price. ‘So we take a run through the house, ‘you can show me whatever
upgrades you have, ‘and we’ll make a list, ‘and I’ll answer any questions you have.’ So, inside step number one
is actually three things: establish the highest
price, look at the house, and answer any questions. Step number two, if you’re
okay with step number one, step number two, we’re gonna
review all the paperwork, and there’s a lot of it. And you’re gonna have
questions with the paperwork. ‘Now this takes a little while, ‘we’re gonna review all the paperwork ‘and, if you want to, I’ll
cover the marketing plan. ‘Some people wanna see
it, some people don’t, ‘we’ll cover that when we get to it. ‘Are you okay with step number two? ‘And step number three, ‘we’ll look at all the market research, ‘and we’ll determine,
where, strategically, ‘we should enter the market,
as far as pricing goes.’ So there’s three steps. They can handle three steps. And I don’t get to pricing
until step number three, and they sign the listing
in step number two. Once they’ve signed the listing, I’m working with them,
it’s a collaboration, not an audition, anymore. – So, to one of your points about looking at the market research, and just something that
we’ve learned over time is that, if you go into
that listing appointment with a predetermined price and they see that you’ve done that, you’ve lost a little favor,
right there, as far as making them feel like
you’re working for them. – Agreed. I think more listings are
lost over that, right there. If you tell somebody what
their house is worth, they already know what
their house is worth, they already know what they
think their house is worth. And achieve, at the listing, your opinion is none of their business. Once they hire you, when
they sign the listing, now you work for them. Now you’ve gotta share the market research and help them get the
right price on the house. The only decision they
really have to make is how fast they wanna sell. That’s it. Not the price. How soon do you wanna sell the house? And that drives the price. – It does. Absolutely drives the price, all the time. If you’re in a hurry, just like the iBuyer platforms, they’re approving it all the time. They’re giving people
thousands of dollars less, to get them money, faster. That proves the point that
price is incredibly important. And then time, of course. What are you offering? – Well, and Max brought
this up, if we don’t adapt to what the real market is,
we’re gonna be dinosaurs and we’re gonna go extinct. And so, a lot of the
really good agents, now, are walking in their appointments saying, ‘Listen, if you want an iBuyer offer, ‘I have that, right here,
so we’ll do that today, ‘if that’s really what you want.’ To ignore the iBuyer, and
not address it, upfront, it’s a mistake. It’s the elephant under the rug, and you’ve gotta come in and say, ‘Look, I have that, this is
part of my marketing plan. ‘If you wanna sell it,
today, I can sell it today. ‘You just won’t get as much money.’ So that’s the adaptation,
that Max talked about. – And bring it up, to the
forefront, right away, is so powerful. We don’t need to hide from it, we just need to make it available and say, ‘Here’s the pros and cons of it, ‘and lemme share with
you the difference, here, ‘by workin’ with me as a
real estate agent, here, ‘with the marketing plan.’ No, fantastic. – Yes, and we’ve done a short
class on going on the offense with the iBuyer platforms, and we’ve created a PowerPoint that people can download as a PDF, and it shows the seller a Zillow offer, an Opendoor offer, and a realtor offer, and then, when you get down to it, what you’re doing with the iBuyer platform is giving up money, for time. And the beautiful thing about Vegas, last year, anyway, was
that the houses didn’t stay on the market. Those that were the medium price in the 305, to 315, they
don’t stay on the market a month, anyway. So you’re giving away a lot of money, and not really saving a lotta time. You might be saving the
aggravation, that people think is aggravation, anyway,
(laughing) of showing the house, or keeping
your house clean everyday, but that’s a small price to pay for the money you’re leavin’ on the table. – Right, right, for the convenience. Which you’re not losing,
like you said, Ruth, in this market, right now, in Vegas. – And so, to Jimmy’s point,
and the subject of today, negotiating, that’s part of negotiating. Wouldn’t you say, Jim? – I would, and I have a reveal here, are you ready for it? – Yes.
– All right, I’m ready. – Ruthie and I were talking,
our favorite trainer is a guy named Brian Buffini. Real estate training, he’s
just as good as they get. My second favorite trainer
is a guy named Tom Ferry. Now, the reveal is Ruthie
and I are gonna put together a pathways to mastery class, starting the first week of
April, at noon on Fridays. It’s an eight-week course, it’s not cheap, but it’s one tenth of a commission check, it’s about 500 bucks. And Ruthie and I don’t
get any of the money, we just facilitate the course, it’s a Buffini thing,
it’s as good as it gets. So that’ll start in April. If you wanna know about
that, get ahold of Ruthie and she’ll give you the details. But my point with that is
there’s three trainers I like. Brian Buffini’s my favorite,
Tom Ferry’s my second, and a guy named Terry Watson’s
my third favorite trainer. (giggling) I was at a Terry Watson
conference, or he was speaking, and he started talking
about Chris Voss’s book, “Never Split the Difference”. I’m thinkin’, ‘Well I’ve
already read the book, ‘I’m so smart, I’m the
head of Terry Watson.’ Then he talked about three
things that I’d forgotten, in the book, so I thought, ‘Maybe I should either reread the book,’ I went to the library, on Hoopla, I got the download for
free, so price is no object. I download the book, I’m listening to it, and then about a month
later I’m at Tom Ferry’s conference in Anaheim,
and his guest speaker is Chris Voss. I’m thinkin’, ‘Well, I’ve read the book, ‘I’ve listened to the, do I
really need to see this guy?’ So I thought, ‘Well, I’ve
paid for the conference, ‘he’s a keynote speaker.’ He said three things,
in the first 20 minutes, that I had never heard, before. I was so glad I went to see him. Seein’ the guy live was way
different than readin’ the book, or listenin’ to the audio. Just, beyond excellent, really good. – Oh, sure, I make a habit of, when I read a book that I
really like, I consume it 100 times, and through time. ‘Cause what happens is
you go through life, and experience things, and have
certain situations come up, that make you aware of
something more specific, and then you happen to hear
that message, within the book, at the right moment,
and it clicks with you, the synapsis in your brain happens. And then, obviously, with
the author writing the book and he’s obviously done
hundreds of presentations, he’s learned, obviously, some new nuances, to what he’s teaching, too,
and he brings that to light. Some excellent stuff, there. – Well, as you said, when
the student is ready, the teacher appears. It might be the same book
you’ve read four times, but the fifth time you read it, ‘Oh my God, I was ready
for somethin’ new.’ – Right, no, if I read “How to Win Friends and
Influence People” again, today, I’m sure I’ll be able to pick up three, four, five, six
things that I forgot, or didn’t implement, yet. – I’m a big fan of Jim Collins,
he wrote “Good to Great”, “Built to Last”, all these books, he’s got a short YouTube clip out, and he talks about some of
the best advice he ever got, and he talks about be interested more than try to be interesting. And that’s in Carnegie’s book, how to win friends and be
interested in other people. And we make a connection. – You have two ears and
one mouth for a reason. – Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. – We need to listen, and ask questions. – Well I have three lessons from the book, the Chris Voss book. And the first one is the FBI says their single-most important strategy is what you just said. Listen. He said they listen. And he said they listen in teams. The hostage negotiator will
have two or three other people on the line, listening
to voice syntactics, background noises, the word choice, everything about this whole conversation. Because one person cannot get it all. They have a whole team, to listen. So their number one strategy is listen, and their number two
strategy is ask questions, so they can listen some more. They just get more information, they just unpack it, and
unpack it, and unpack it. And the person asking the questions is the one to control the conversation. That’s the first two strategies. And the third strategy, Ruthie,
you and I talked about this, is Isopraxism. Everybody knows what that is. – Yes.
(laughing) – What is it? – It’s mirroring. That’s very important. – Yeah, do you have a
thought on that, Max? – No, repeat what you just said? – Mirroring. When the FBI talks to somebody, we’ve talked about mirroring
and negotiating, for years, and we talk about mirroring
somebody’s physiology. How are they sitting, body language. But, on the FBI phone calls, they can’t tell what somebody looks like, how they’re sitting, so it’s called not just
verbal, but paraverbal. The word choice that the person
uses when they’re talking, the FBI will match those word choice, to the letter, to the ‘T’, and that makes the person
feel like they’ve been heard, and they’re willing to keep talking. And if you can get ’em to keep talking, now you can figure out what
it is they really want. – No, absolutely, absolutely. I just had a thought,
there, but we’ll move on. I wanna actually go back
to the negotiating thing, cause I have an objection that came up in the forefront of my
mind, when you went through the three step process, which is, ‘Tell me what we think we
can get the house for?’ ‘Upfront’, how do you handle that, without skipping the steps?
– Are you talking about as a buyer?
– As a seller. I’m a seller, and you’re
on the phone with me, or on the listing presentation with me, and you go through your three steps and I go, ‘Can we skip all that, ‘and just tell me how much
we can get the house for?’ – Yeah, do you want the truth, Max? – Yes. – Okay, and you want it straight, right? – Yes.
– Okay, here it is, I’m gonna give it to you straight. If I give it to ya straight,
can I have the listing? – Depends.
– Depends on what? – Depends if I like the price, or not. – Okay, so you’re gonna list your house with whoever tells ya they
can get ya the most money, even if that’s not really the truth? – No? – Okay, that’s mean, there, Jimmy. – That’s called auctioneering,
and some guy will come in, if I tell you 280, and
somebody comes in and says 310, and they get the listing,
and it sells for 280, I was right, but I didn’t get the listing. And I’m out here to do
business with you, my friend, and I only have one non-negotiable, and that is that you’re satisfied. ‘Cause if you’re not satisfied,
I can’t do work for you. And so, for me to satisfy
you, if I give you the price, I have to know that I’m
gonna get the listing. – Okay, good. Sure, I’ll give you the listing. – Good, okay. – That’s good, right there. Ya closed me.
(laughing) What I like about what
Jimmy did right there was he wasn’t gonna give me what I wanted, until he got what he wanted, so it was an exchange, there. – That was a negotiation. – Right, that was a great exchange. So, fantastic.
– I’ll take it, thank you. (laughing) The three points that we talked about, from Chris Voss’s book, listenin’, asking questions,
and that mirroring. When I went to the
conference, and he spoke, Chris Voss said, ‘We’ve
negotiated lots of transactions, ‘real estate transactions, ‘after we did hostage negotiating’, he’s got a company called Black Swan. And he said the typical
real estate transaction, after they ratify the listing agreement, and after they ratify
the purchase agreement, they’re actually in escrow, he said there’s an average of
25 points to get negotiated, after they make a deal. So your negotiating
skills have to be there throughout from the time
you take the listing, to the offer comes in,
to the walk through, to the home inspection, all that stuff. Negotiating part’s never over. – It really isn’t, until the deal closes. – And, tell us some more, Jimmy. – Okay. – We’re not tired of
listening to you, believe me. (laughing) I just wanna say ‘hi’ to Cathy Russo, haven’t seen you for a while,
Cathy, good to see you. We also have Angela Musako joining us. And Lauren Gross-McGah,
just like to shout out, and we really appreciate the views. So, Jimmy, tell us more. – Okay, one of the things
that Chris Voss said, from the stage, and I’m
gonna move from Chris Voss to the Dr. Cialdini
book, in a second, here, but he said the one thing you
should never ask your seller, ‘How you doin’?’ ‘How you doin’?’ ‘How you doin’?’ You’re supposed to know how they’re doin’. ‘Don’t you know I’m under stress? ‘This is a crazy process. ‘I didn’t know this was gonna happen, ‘you never told me about this.’ You’re not supposed to
say ‘How you doin’?’ And I just thought that was–
– That’s good advice, that’s good advice. – He used this Joey Tribbiani impression, and it was just beyond funny. You’re not supposed to
ask ’em ‘How you doin’?’ And he said, they’re expecting bad news when you call them, two things: number one, give ’em the bad news, first, get it right outta the
way, then they can relax, they know what the bad news is. And he said number two, the
FBI never leaves a phone call without telling the hostage takers, ‘Here’s when we’re gonna call back’, so they’re not sitting by the phone wondering if you’re gonna
call, when you’re gonna call. He said they always know exactly when you’re gonna call back, and you have to be so consistent that you become more and more trustworthy, ’cause you call them back
when you say you’re gonna call ’em back. So those are the big, big points from Chris Voss’s work, that I saw, that I picked up outta the stuff. And go to the library,
and download the book, and listen to it in your car, it’s free. – No, fantastic, fantastic. That’s one things that I’ve implemented in my personal business, is a client never gets
off the phone with me without having an expectation of when they’re gonna hear from me, again. And it sets that precedence
of dis-consistency. I remember going through
real estate transactions, and being in the mortgage business, and how frustrating it was
just to wait around for when a issue comes up with an appraisal, or an inspection, or some
loan documents gone missing, or whatever, and there was no
timeframe in which we could know if someone was gonna get back to us. People don’t necessarily want a problem to be resolved, instantly. We’re fair and balanced, that way. What we don’t want is
to have no knowledge of anything that’s going
on, for days at a time. If, simply, someone just
picked up the phone and said, or after someone said,
‘There’s a problem here, ‘but I’m gonna call you
later today, at 7:00, ‘and give you an update’,
just by doing that, I think, will relieve and build
your credibility way more than someone that says,
‘I’ll get back to you’, and keeps it open-ended. It’s a great tip. – Yeah, yeah, I agree. – So what else, Jimmy? What nuggets of negotiation? So we have the power three, – And lemme go to, Chris Voss talks about, I
wanna get to the other book before we run outta time, here,
but Chris Voss talks about one thing, he said, ‘People are emotional. ‘And a lot of negotiators
see that emotional outburst, ‘or that emotional outcry as
an obstacle’, and he said, ‘Really, it’s not an obstacle, ‘it’s the means to getting what they want. ‘When they become emotional,
now you’re really hitting ‘their hot buttons, and their triggers, ‘and if you can use those emotions ‘in a way that’s constructive,
instead of fighting them, ‘people are emotional.’ And he said the second
thing, the big obstacle for negotiators, and people
in general, just human nature, we think we’re normal. So I present something to Ruthie, and I don’t know why she doesn’t take it the same way I present it to her, because I’m normal, and
she’s not, and he says “You’re not normal, get
over that normal thing, “don’t even think about that,
’cause you’re not normal.” And that was big, that was big. – Yeah, now one of the worst.
– What’s bad about. Go ahead, Max. – One of the worst things you can do in any conflict situation is when someone expresses
an opinion of some sort, with a tremendous amount
of emotional intensity, is to invalidate that intensity, right? Meaning, calm down, or you’re
taking it too seriously, what you’re doing is
actually denying them, and almost pushing aside their
concern, or their opinion, and that’s the worst thing you can do, because the first rule in
sales is to always agree, and by denying and pushing
their concerns aside, and invalidating their intensity, what you’re doing is you’re
disagreeing with them, and it doesn’t put you on
the same page with them. If anything, you should come
back with the same intensity in your agreement with whatever
it is that they’re saying, so they feel like you’re on their side, and then, if you wanna make
a shift in the perspective, you have to do it as a second,
third step in the process, not the very beginning step, so. – You mirror first,
first you mirror, yeah. – First you mirror. – What is BATNA? – The best alternative
to negotiated agreement, that is from the Harvard Negotiation work, and Fisher and Ury, and there’s actually
a really good YouTube, or a TED Talk by Fisher, and he opens the TED Talk
with the 17 camel dilemma, I don’t know if you’ve
ever heard this before, but this father dies, and he
has 17 camels, and he says “To my eldest son, I’m
gonna leave half my camels, “and to my second son “I’m gonna leave one third of my camels, and to my third son I’m gonna
leave one sixth of my camels.” Well, 17 doesn’t divide that way, and he explains what you have to do to get this thing to work out, and it’s a really interesting solution, and I have a friend that’s
actually from Persia, where he had camels. And I said “Have you heard the 17 camel dilemma?” And he said “No, I haven’t.” So I explained it to him, and I said “Let me know what you come up with.” And about an hour later, he came and said “Okay, I figured it out.” And he came up with a solution that’s different from Fisher
and Ury’s, that worked. So, what struck me is that there’s no such thing
as one size fits all, or just one solution. This guy came up with
a solution that worked, and so, when I read these books, and I read this thing or
that thing, and I think “Oh, this is how it works.” Well, maybe not, maybe there’s five other ways to make it work, and the best alternative in
negotiated agreements says “What is your plan B?” The one with the most options has the most power in the negotiation, whether you choose to
wield that power or not, how strong of a relationship do you wanna have with this person? Do you wanna do multiple
transactions with them, do you beat them over the
head with it, or you just know “Look, lemme make sure you’re satisfied, “so that I can be satisfied later.” Ink Magazine rated the top
seven books for negotiating, and Chris Voss’s book
came in at number six, and number one is a book
by Stuart Diamond called “Getting More”, which is a very good book, and Stuart Diamond has a list of rules, but Stuart Diamond talks
about a guy named Bob Wolf, who was a talent negotiator
for sports teams, thousands of negotiations,
really high level, and Bob Wolf was the one that said “I only have one non-negotiable, “I wanna make sure that you’re satisfied, “because I want what I want, “and the only way for
me to get what I want “is for you to get what you want.” And it’s a paradigm shift
for a lot of people, and so BATNA causes your
client to understand what’s our best alternative, and what’s their best alternative. If they don’t get this deal,
what’re their other options? Well, there’s five other houses, two are model matches to this, think of, there’s two other model matches to this, they don’t have to buy my house, what am I gonna do here? So that’s what BATNA is. – And I don’t know, it
made, who’s the, Dale, who’s the old-school
salesperson, that did the whole– – Zig Zigler. – Maybe this was from Zig Zigler, but one of the things that you should always go into the close
with, is multiple options. The worst thing you can go into
the close, and negotiation, is to have one option for a client, and their only answer is either yes or no, that’s a terrible way of closing, because if they don’t like
the offer, they can say no, but if you go into the close
with three alternatives, or three options, and then ask them which one fits in the line
with what you wanna do, then their choices are one
of the three, not yes or no, and that’s kinda in line with what you’re talking about here. And in every situation in life, actually, I think the most frustrating part of what we go through, psychologically, as we evaluate situations in life, is sometimes we feel like
we have only one choice, or one available option is happening, when really there’s
thousands of possibilities that can come from it, and
some of the possibilities are even better than what we
can even imagine at that point, just because of our narrow perspective. – And that might be Chester Karrass, he had that saying that “You don’t get what you deserve in life, “you get what you negotiate.” And he’s been around for 50 years, in every airplane magazine
he had a fold out, come take my three day negotiating course, and it was expensive, but
he’s got several books out, so it might’ve been him. I do wanna talk about
“Influence” for just a minute, Cialdini’s book, and I think, he talks about six principles
that cause people to move, and I think the single
most powerful one is the principle of reciprocation. – Yep. – You do something nice for me, then I’m obligated to do something nice for you, and he says, “Every culture on the planet, “Africa, Asia, everywhere,
teaches this to their children, “if someone does somethin’
nice for you, you reciprocate.” And he says “In English, there’s negative words “for people who don’t reciprocate, “like moocher, and ingrade, and teenager.” And so, whatever. – Right.
(laughing) – But I know, if I go on
a marketing consultation, and I don’t take a gift for their time, I’m ignoring this principle. And the gift I’m gonna take,
if I don’t know them very well, is moving boxes, well,
you’re gonna move, right? Here, I brought you some boxes. Now I’ve given ’em something. – Absolutely, absolutely. – And Aaron Taylor takes an
apple pie to every listing. He walks in with a gift. – Yep, powerful stuff. I had an agent bring
me chocolates one time, I’ve had an agent bring me wine, ’cause I’ll do a training
exercise at my house, and have them come over and go through the listing presentation, and very very very few
actually use this principle, even though they know they’re
not getting the listing, the fact is I’m giving
them an hour of my time. So, for them to walk in, and they have a gift when they come in, I know they’re thinking, so it’s good. – No, absolutely, that’s
probably one of the best books on sales that has been ever written. And I actually got a
chance to meet Cialdini, maybe five years ago, and surprisingly enough
he looks like Steve Winn. (laughing) And I actually get, I pulled
him aside in the back, I actually to talked to him, I’m like now, because the internet marketing world has really embraced his book, so often, and they use all the
tactics in their marketing, and I told him, I go “You think these principles
are gonna be worn out, “people are gonna get too used to it, “and put their defenses up against it, “because they’ve been
inundated so much with it.” And he told me, he’s like “I think, if you have a
malice intention behind it, “then yes, people will be
able to spot through it, “but if your intention, and
your product and service “is really good, and
does help them, in a way, “these principles will
work for the rest of time.” And he’s seen it, he’s gone through, around the world, doing his
speeches and stuff like that, and it’s worked like gangbusters. And even, and I, Ruth is
a testament to his work, because when I met Ruth three years ago, I introduced her to these strategies, and we implemented into the
tech forum presentation, and she saw the results. The close ration we had at the tech forum the first two years, and some of the other presentations, so they’re very effective, and if there was one book you
ever want to read this year, immediately, it would be his book “Influence” by Robert Cialdini. – It’s on audio, so
realtors can read it, too. – Yes.
(laughing) – Yes. – One of the things that
solidified our relationship about Cialdini was, when I was going, I was working my way through school, and I was an Amway sales one, sales gal, and so, with Amway back then, and we’re talkin’ now,
folks, in the 1966, ’67, so maybe some of you don’t
even know what Amway is, but it was cleaning supplies. And so we were taught that you take a basket of
the cleaning supplies, you knock on the door, and you say “Hi, this is Ruth, “and I’m offering Amway
products for you to try. “And so I’m gonna leave these with you, “and I’ll be back in a couple days, “and you let me know what you think.” Nine times out of 10,
and I’m not exaggerating, when I went back in a
couple days, they said “You can’t take these, I want these.” Because Amway had a great product, but you gave them
something, they tried it, and then you tried to
take it away from them– – Exactly right. – Cialdini is all over that. Two or three of his principles. – Well, Fuller Brush did the same thing. Fuller Brush would give you a gift, and I talked to a person that was actually a Fuller Brush salesperson, he said, ‘The Fuller Brush company
did not give us those gifts, ‘we had to buy those
gifts, to give them away.’ So they were teaching their salespeople this whole principle–
– The value. – And I think, when we
talk about books to read, Rich DeVos, who started
Amway, wrote a book called “The Compassionate Capitalist”, that book is one of the most
amazing books I’ve ever read, I don’t even know where
you can get it, right now, probably on eBay or somewhere. “The Compassionate Capitalist”. He did not talk about
Amway, at all, in the book. He talked about compassion. I’m gonna reread that book,
I have about 10 books, this year, that I will
reread, and that’s one of ’em. He was really, really, beyond brilliant. – Let me just segue back
here to the realtors that are listening, and go after listings. While we were talking, I was thinking of: what a great tactic we have,
with these iBuyer platforms, and getting the offer
from Opendoor or Zillow, and taking it to the listing
presentation because, generally, a seller wants
more money, than less money. (laughing) – Generally.
– Generally, yeah. And so, when you can show someone, this is Zillow, this is Opendoor, they’re gonna give you 380 thousand, and your house is worth 430 thousand. You really have an edge
up, there, I think. And the agent should use that. That’s a great tip, and I think sometimes we gloss over things, because
we take them for granted, but the people that we’re presenting to, I think would really
appreciate that comparison. – And the question is,
are you willing to lose that much money? Risk of loss, we’re risk of verse. It’s one of the principles
of human nature. If you tell me how much
money I’ll make, I’ll listen, but if you tell me how
much money I’ll lose if I don’t act, I’ll do
more than listen, I’ll act. So it’s a presentation. – And I think agents are
gonna have to hone up on their listing skills
because, with all the people that are moving to Vegas,
there are gonna be people that are gonna want to move, because of the appreciation we’ve had. Last year, your house
was worth 300 thousand, this year, it’s worth 320 thousand. So there’s a lot of incentive, there, for sellers to sell, because they can maybe buy a bigger house,
whatever they wanna do. But there’s more money to
be put in their pocket, now. So there’s a lot of tactics
that people can use, now, to get listings, and there’s
gonna be a lotta people that wanna list. So I think there’s gonna be
some competition out there, so that agents need to take
an apple pie, take a gift. Take a listing presentation. You can show them the
presentation on your laptop, and you can actually leave them something that has the listing
presentation, in readable form, and leave it on their coffee table and, if they’re gonna
interview other agents, they’re always gonna compare
you with everybody else that didn’t give them something. – Well this is why what you
do is so powerful, Ruth. If you get there, ahead of
time, I know you get the same calls I get. I get at least two calls,
per week, at least two, from somebody saying, ‘Would
you consider a cash offer, ‘for your house?’ At least two, per week. So that means my clients
are getting those, too. If I called them and said,
‘Listen, I’m gonna send you ‘an offer on your house, ‘I’m just gonna sent it
to you, you look at it, ‘and tell me, if you could get this much, ‘would you consider
buyin’ a bigger house?’ And this speaks to your point, Max, here’s what your house is
worth, to one of these iBuyers, now you know. I could get this, tomorrow,
if I wanted to sell. ‘Well, no, I want more than that. ‘Jim, can’t you get me more than that?’ Well, if you wanna sell,
and you’re willin’ to give us some time on the market, yeah, we can get you more, a lot more. But let’s just lead with that. – I just thought about a
way to spin this that is so, I think, brilliant. In my opinion,
(laughing) but, it’s just my opinion. Incorporating this law
of reciprocation, here, part of your listing presentation is not only will I, one of these three, I’m gonna bring you an offer, as well. And really thinking about
seeing what the iBuyer platform would pay, for that house, and consider bringing that,
as part of the presentation. It’s repackaging what
we’re saying, before. We’re already gonna bring this up with the lister, but really spinning it in a way where, not only am I gonna demonstrate to you how much I can get for your house, but I’m gonna bring you
an offer, right away. In this presentation,
and then utilizing that to persuade them, or to talk to them about how utilizing you, you can get more money, and
what money they’ll be leaving on the table, if they were to
go with the iBuyer platform. – Right. And, Max, you said, ‘Just tell
me what my house is worth.’ Well, to who? To an investor? I’ll tell ya right now. Max, to an investor, here’s
what your house is worth, and I put that down in front of you, there’s a shock value, there. ‘Man, I was thinkin’ a lot more than this, ‘this is what my house is worth?’ No, this is what your house
is worth to an investor. If you wanna sell it, today,
this is what you can get. ‘Well, I want more than that’, that’s why you have me. I have negotiating skills,
I have marketing skills and, if you want more than
that, sign the listing and let’s make some money. – One of my little nuance
sayings, that I love the most is: ‘That’s exactly why’. ‘That’s exactly why I’m here, today, ”cause I know you want more than that.’ – Yeah, yeah.
(laughing) – That’s true. – So if you can incorporate
that little three words, ‘That’s exactly why.’ What you’re doing is reaffirming it, it’s like a NLP thing. So, anyways. – There’s another phrase,
just like that, called ‘If you’re like most people’. ‘If you’re like most
people, you actually want ‘top dollar, for your house.’ ‘Well, I am like most
people, I do want top dollar ‘for my house’, and they
can identify with that. So, ‘That’s exactly why,
if you’re like most people, ‘we have two options here.’ They like two options, gimme two choices, at least gimme an option. – Right. And Jimmy Dague just implemented
the law of social proof, into his messaging, right there, that’s one of the weapons
that the book influence. People will tend to follow the herd, so they want social proof, and he’s implementing that saying as part of a social proof language. – In the book “Pre-Suasion”, Cialdini talks about
the ethical implications that you brought up earlier, Max. He said, ‘Ya know, when I
came out with the first book, “Influence to Psychology and Persuasion”, ‘people questioned the
ethics’, and he said, ‘Look, this is just self-defense. ‘If you know what these
weapons are, of influence, ‘you can arm yourself for ’em.’ He said, ‘The pre-suasion one, ‘it really comes down to the person ‘that’s using the tactics, ‘because they’re not as evident,
they’re not as apparent, ‘and they’re powerful.’ “Pre-Suasion”‘s a really,
really good follow-up to Influence. – It’s pretty powerful,
because he talks about some of the things that
you do ahead of time, (laughing) to set up the situation,
and then implement the weapons of influence,
as you go into it. Something we need to
discuss, for tech forum, next year, as well. – I have one last thought, with you, that I’d like to close with. If that’s okay.
– Sure. – Okay, the National
Association of Realtors, every year, puts out a profile
of home buyers and sellers. It comes out in November,
it’s on realtor.org. If you’re a realtor, you
put in your NRDS number, and you can get that profile. And they talk about, the number one skill that buyers want, from their agent. And the number one skill is
‘Help me find the right house’. They expect us to have product knowledge. But the number two skill,
and the number three skill, are both negotiating strategies. – Exactly. – So, how much training have
you had, in negotiating, as a real estate agent? It’s not a required topic. So most agents have had zero
training, in negotiating. So we’re not only doin’
this class coming up on January 13th, it’s gonna
be ethics and negotiation. We’re doin’ another class,
and Ruthie and I are writing a class, specifically for
negotiating strategies, and I wanna work with her
to dovetail what you said, Max, how do we use this on technology, taking these principles of human nature, how do we incorporate that
into the social media world, and just merry these two things together. So I’m excited about writin’
a CE class, with Ruthie, it’s comin’ up.
– Yes, yeah. And, Jimmy, you’re gonna be doing ethics, on January 13th,
at our training center, at 8400 West Sahara. There’ll be a social-savvy training center from 10:00 to 1:00, with a free lunch, and you get three CE required credits. You can go to
agentformula.com/training, and sign up, we’ll also be boosting
some events, out there. And I think you do Eventbrite, as well. We’ll give everybody an
opportunity to join the class. We do run outta space, we
just added some more space, but sign up as soon as
you can, for the class. It’s only $10 and ya get a free lunch, and ya get three CE credits,
and ya get Jimmy Dague. – And Ruthie, it’s satisfied
with a bi-annual requirement. Realtors have a bi-annual
requirement, this covers that. – It’s 70 years of real
estate experience, in a room. – There ya go.
(laughing) – Oh dear. And then, agentformula.com/training is where you can sign up for the next let’s see, here, ugh, my computer, you can sign up for Agent Formula Social
Media Strategy Academy, where you get all the
tactics of social media, with LinkedIn and Facebook, and how to do videos, and how to jab-jab-right hook, which is give, give, give, then ask. And we teach ya how to do that, and we put them into a strategy, so that we’re not just tellin’ ya what to do, but
we’re showin’ ya how to do it, and threading a strategy in there, so that you can stay relevant, and stay in the real estate business for the next five years. It’s January the eighth, ninth and 10th, from 10:00 to 2:00, free
breakfast, free lunch, and we hope everybody will go sign up, again, space runs out. It’s beginning of the
year, it’s a great time to get your tactics and strategies together. – Thanks for having me
on, Ruthie, thank you. – Yeah, thanks for comin’ on, Jimmy. – Okay, man. – All right, everybody,
have a wonderful week, and we will see you next Saturday. – All righty.
(laughing) And, yes. I’m gonna start a podcast this week. – Oh, fantastic, okay. – So, yesterday, we worked
very hard on the new Be.Live platform. Jimmy came over to the office, and we worked really hard on it, and got his computer all set up, because there are some differences. We were using my computer, in the office, and Jimmy was in the training room, so we were goin’ back and forth, ’cause you know things reverberate, if you’re in the same room. – So we’re still live, right, Ruth? – Are we?
(laughing) – Yeah, we’re still live. Have a good week, everybody. – Yeah, have a good week, everybody. I hope to see you at our classes, check out all the training
at agentformula.com/training, and Max and I are gonna
have a conversation about some of the new things
we’re doing this year. And we’ll share them with you, soon. – All right.

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